There is a link at the bottom of the page to a PETITION so you can sign in order to join our Campaign For Truth.
21st December 2012
PROCLAMATION FOR TRUTH
To the First Presidency & Quorum of Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We, as members of said Church, give this our Proclamation:
Let it be known that we twelve members of the Church represent many thousands of other members all over the world who are honest, faithful & sincere. We, in good conscience, have served faithfully in the Church giving much of our time, talents & financial resources to build up the Church, believing it to be the Kingdom of God on earth. Many of us have served faithfully with all our hearts, might, mind & strength all our lives.
WHEREAS, we believe in honesty & integrity, we expect God’s Kingdom on earth to be led by God’s authorised servants who epitomise these same values in their leadership. Yet we find it is not so. We find instead that loyalty & obedience is valued more highly by them than integrity to the truth.
WHEREAS, we believe in truth, we expect the Church of the One True God to be built on truth. We expect no pretence, nor corruption, only honesty & openness, having nothing to hide, displaying a willingness & desire to declare all the facts in a full & frank disclosure. Yet we find an unwillingness to discuss difficult areas of Church history, with the excuse that some aspects of Church history are not faith promoting.
WHEREAS, we expect that when the Church claims to be “The One and Only True Church of Jesus Christ on the face of the whole earth”, we expect the Church bases this claim on facts which are true & verifiable. There should be no truth claim which under the ‘full light of day’ is proven to be otherwise. Yet we find many of the truth claims to be based not on substantive facts, but on an altered narrative crucially lacking in historical accuracy, with uncomfortable, yet context altering details suspiciously ignored, even hidden from the membership.
WHEREAS, we have been perpetually taught that the divine authority of God had been established through the restoration of the Holy Priesthood with the calling of Prophets & Apostles, therefore we trusted that God would lead & direct his servants. It followed that when prophets, seers & revelators, addressed us under inspiration, their words would be the mind & will of God. We were assured that God would never let them lead the Church astray. Yet we find many failed or changed prophetic pronouncements of the past suspiciously declared as “folklore” & just “personal opinion”.
WHEREAS, many faithful members are seekers after truth & desperate to receive honest, full & frank answers to their sincere questions, we find that instead of being assisted, they are ignored at best, or at worst ostracized for simply wanting to know the full facts about the origins of their Church. In most cases Stake Presidents & Bishops are ill-equipped to answer their questions.
Brother Chris Ralph from the UK recently sent two Open Letters to the Europe Area Presidency with vital questions which needed to be answered in order for the authority of the Church to continue to be justified in its claim to be of divine origin. The Open Letters were sent to the Europe Area Presidency in August and October and as of now remain not only unresolved, but without response. As a group of twelve concerned members we also sent a letter to the Area Presidency on the 3rd December pleading for a response. We have received no response.
Therefore, we APPEAL to the highest authority of the Church for answers to these vital questions. Brethren your response to these questions will not only show sincere concern, but could potentially resolve the painful religious trauma syndrome many members suffer from as a result of the cognitive dissonance they face as they encounter historical facts completely in contradiction with the story told them by the Church. We can attest that the pain we and many, many others are experiencing upon discovering that our faith is not based on truth, is an emotion akin to feeling like we have been deceived by those we respect & love.
Brethren, we DECLARE this day, the 21st December 2012, that without a formal public pronouncement of the answers to these crucial questions in a full, frank & honest manner, that you as leaders of this Church be held responsible for the continued wilful deception of many millions of faithful Church members. The Church membership needs its leaders to show integrity, humility & absolute honesty if this Church is to continue to provide the sense of purpose & security which the faithful members deserve.
Belief in a fanciful lie, no matter how consoling, is a damnable false hope. The Church can continue to provide security & meaning for its followers, but only if it is based on truth. Please consider your positions of trust & have the integrity we all hope you have by telling us the truth we need to hear, rather than just hoping we will all just go away. We will not go away, and there are thousands of others also ready to speak as we do. Truth will win out in the end, we hope you have the courage to follow that truth no matter where it may lead.
We affirm to you that humility, honesty, integrity & authenticity is a far greater & more rewarding path to follow than blind obedience & meaningless loyalty can ever be.
Yours faithfully
Martha Bache
David Bloor
Steve Bloor
Jeremy Brown
Lisa Campbell
Pip Chapman
Damian Mitchell
Tim Morgan
Tom Phillips
Sophia Ralph
Ted Ralph
Ken Smith
(Please repost, share & promote far & wide.)
……………..//………………
The questions are linked in this post:
Twelve members of Mormon Church plead for honest answers to two open letters
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This has been truly well done in my eyes. I heartily commend you brothers and sisters; you have my full support and my sincere admiration.
The European LDS members now lead the tip of the spear that is piercing church propaganda. I hope all of your efforts succeed!
Thanks for your support David.
This is a message that many faithful members of the Church would like some positive response from the leadership of the Church. The council that we’ve received in the past hasn’t been all that helpful and many questions have been left to only the apologists to answer. It is time that leadership make their voices be heard. We, the congregates, are trying to live lives of integrity and honesty. When we see leadership obfuscate tough questions pertaining to either church history or current policy practices of the Church, many feel as sense of distrust and discouragement.
Thank you for your persistence with this inquiry. These questions need answers and should be simple to answer
Great Proclamation! I love how it unrelentingly holds the FP+Q12 to a standard of TRUTH and HONESTY – two words that, in my experience, characterize the teachings of Mormonism. Teaching young Mormons (and ALL Mormons, for that matter) to be TRUTHFUL and HONEST has come back to bite the FP+Q12.
I’ll add that the phrase you use above “Therefore, we APPEAL to the highest authority of the Church for answers to these vital questions.” I can almost hear a GA replying, “Well, the ‘highest authority of the Church’ are God and Jesus Christ, not us. So go back and pray again.” – or something to that effect. Adherence to Mormonism, for the TBMs I know, is based on feelings which are mistaken for personal revelation from God. Facts be damned.
The LDS Church isn’t what it says it is. Sending your letter of resignation and leading a life as you wish is the best message you can send to these leaders. The more people leave the more pressure will be placed on them to change the message they present to the world.
Just like the legacy of Harvey Milk, who bravely led the LGBT community to come out of the closet until society could not deny that wonderful, moral and loving LGBT people were everywhere, when exmormons and honest members follow the Steve’s lead to publicly and openly call out the church leaders on their lies and dishonesty, then the church will have to repent, change or cease to exist. I salute your bravery!
Excellent. I’d sure like it if there was a response.
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Still waiting…
Where I can sign my name?
It’s paralyzing sometimes, when you get out and find out how dishonest the leaders are with members.
I want to sign it too! Maybe if this becomes a petition and they see the thousands of names on it they (FP and Q12) will understand these issues need to be addressed!
The petition is now live Shane.
Thanks for your support.
This is a great proclamation, and I hope in some way we can get more than 12 members to openly support it. There are so many of us wishing for honesty, truth and transparency. I sincerely hope that this reaches the hearts and minds of the FP and Q12, and that they finally address these issues honestly and sincerely.
It seems that the problem right now is that the LDS Church and its leaders do not know what they believes in, nor what they teach. There was a time when the Church teachings were clear (even if wrong): We knew that all American Indians were Lamanites, that blacks were cursed decendents of Cain, evolution was wrong, and the world was 6000 years old. We were convinced that there was no death before Adam, that just being Gays was a sin, we all could become Gods with our own worlds, and the Garden of Eden was in Missoury. etc., etc. (I do not advocate that the Church should teach these ideas any more; I am just just pointing out some things which were definite teachings when I was young – yes long time ago).
However, the Church leadership currently does not seem to have any answers to these, or many other questions. They seem to be avoiding answering, or waffling with answers like “we really do not teach that,” or “we really do not know the real reason,” or that is not important or central to our salvation.”
This is not enough, and we all want to know where the Church, for which many of us have devoted much of our lives, stands truthfully on its history, its teachings, and its real source of power. No BS, just the simple truths. We want honesty, openness and transparency from the Curch and its leaders. We deserve noting less!
Thank you so much for writing this Proclamation.
Thanks Hank,
We’ve just put up a Petition site and Facebook Page.
Hoping to get some attention from people who can help make some changes.
As they say “Truth Will Eventually Prevail” ——- as a truth seeker I appreciate your desires to bring Truth to so many. Truth has always had a problem because of the Greed of this World has such a strong hold on people who throughout history have wanted people to believe the world was flat, scientists are all atheists, and Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Warren Jeffs, etc. were true prophets of God! As we look forward to a new year let us all rededicate our efforts in spreading the truth to all people ——– even the brainwashed LDS sheep who are being led by greedy old men!
This should be nailed to the front door of every LDS church, temple, and mission home. Well, maybe not nailed, since those doors are normally made of glass, but set with some type of sticky device.
What motivation do the leaders of the church have in responding to this? Responding only exposes their weak position and will hurt the church. I assume you will never get a response, I also assume you do not expect one.
If you need someone in Utah to personally serve anything to the Church Office Building, contact me. I will be happy to do so, free of charge.
That would be wonderful.
Please feel free to print off our Proclamation and take a hard copy to the COB.
We will be very grateful.
I would just like to say, thank you for giving us all a voice. The church may try to ignore it but 1000’s of us finally have a chance to be heard worldwide. They can try and pretend we are just a few but carry on as they do and soon they will be the ones in the minority.
I almost choked when I heard Jeffrey R Holland say “To those who were once with us but have retreated, preferring to pick and choose a few cultural hors d’oeuvres from the smorgasbord of the Restoration and leave the rest of the feast, I say that I fear you face a lot of long nights and empty nets” at the last general conference. Who is REALLY picking and choosing here? All that the members are ever given are a few “historical hors d’oeuvres” from the “smorgasbord” of church history, when in fact there is an entire feast of truth to be had. What a hypocrite!
As I took a time to read this text with respect as asked me before and I’m going to express my opinion about this ideas. Someone that reads the book of Mormon every day; pray individual and with the family; fast; go to the church every sunday would not say/write somethig like that. Pay atention there were many giamts that fall just because they left the truth.
Watch out the apostasy.
Best regards,
Jonaths Pacifico
Jonaths, I read the bible regularly, pray constantly, attend a church most Sundays, and in a addition to what you have suggested spend many hours in a year working voluntarily for my local community and for a national charity. I do this due to my commitment to the teachings of Jesus Christ, and the gift of grace which I now understand. I do not share the same view as you and can understand why these people have written what they have having studied the original source documents of the LDS church, I know some of these people personally – they give a great deal to humanity and live also based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. In 1960 President Lee set up the correlation department and the whole curriculum of the church was sourced from 72 index cards (prepared by the department) which included all the faith promoting elements of the church (ref. some information is included on Richard Polls wiki page – The Swearing Elders Sunstone article). Less faith promoting truth was not included. This issue is highly complex, thick and multi-layered. I can understand any believing LDS member finding this statement very difficult. The church is your life, it is your root to God, it makes you happy. For some it is their whole identity. On the other side, because the church wanted a simplified message the ‘LDS Gospel’ has been developed into a narrative that misses much historical fact, when a member (many times by accident) comes across this information, perhaps preparing a lesson on the Book of Abraham, they are greatly disturbed. There are victims on every side of this argument. Those that have lost their faith because of the church’s simplified message and those that want to keep their faith – they don’t want
any group of people taking away ‘the one and only true church’ from them. I think the 1st Presidency of the church and the 12 apostles are in a very difficult position. They inherited it, they did not create it. It cannot be easy to be responsible for millions. We are all human beings who I believe can support and respect each other even with different opinions. Faith is not a competition and we all need to respect people’s different faith journeys. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and I am sincerely glad that you have found your faith in the LDS church I mean that sincerely.
Karen, thanks for your insight of 12/22/2012, especially your summary of 1970 correlation process, and comment that “.. They (FP and Q12) inherited it, they did not create it.”. – I am thinking lone and deep about what I would do in similar situation if I were a newly-appointed CEO of a large company. One complexity is that church members stand at very different places on continuum of faith, academia, or interest on these topics. I greatly want to find resolve in our moniker that we have “.. true and living .. ” church, and that clear and dynamic answers will spring from it. – Until recently, I was TBM but feel I must trend Moderate-to-Left within LDS to survive these complex topics. If I do not bend, then I will break. Suggestions?
Remember you only have one shot in this life. Studying the whole history of Joseph Smith one could conclude that there is a distinct possibility he was a liar, fraud and a sexual pervert! Now would anyone with any common sence at all conclude ——- Jesus Christ specifically chose Joseph Smith to restore his church to the earth? Are you willing to bet you and your families’ eternal salvation on a liar, fraud and sexual pervert? Many of us were BIC and brainwashed by telling us only the Joseph Smith story he wrote, however, once exposed to the whole truth we are left without excuse to recognize it as righ/wrong or maybe a little bit of both, through the “spirit” or “conscience” or “common scense” what ever you want to call it we are all blessed with!
Really nice!
This is fantastic. It’s well-done, carefully worded, and cuts to the heart of the problem. I applaud your audacity and your courage. I just hope it manages to yield some results.
as one, who was living stinking filthy rags of rightousness only to attract another the leader bishop who went onto stake pres god forbid, Tim Masson of Dianella Perth Western australia Temple stake, who terminated my attendance for 7 years firstly without knowing why but he said the spirit directed him, but later discovered my voicing of racism that had my wife deported, by gossiping racist mormons to immigration, was swepted under the carpet and me branded an apostate….I then fell from mormonism to the gutter of hell and then found middle ground by the lords grace that picked me up, the wounded man, while levitical modern day priests walked on by ignoring me. The damage done and the break up of my family is inexcusable and far from christian. The church should be a hospital for sinners not for saints, and in the midst of my sins, my personal friend Mark Pemberton of Canning vale stake called as stake pres, revealed with love and compassion apon me and invited me back the good man he is. I’m working on trying to restore my marrige, tho without it, there is no mormonism for me. I know now that christ is with us even if the leaders are not… I do not believe that many are qualified to lead, but some are wonderful but most are arrogant that destroys a persons worth and self-esteem, looking down to others……I admire Tom Phillips the annointed one who chooses to keep gods laws but is not attending the church anymore, who took the time to answer my exmormon.org artical under Larry John….. Thankyou for your humble example Tom, yet the church will stand you down for asking the questions you did and rights you have as we all and the church is blatent ignorant in answering such questions and just sweeps it under the carpet and covers it up shame on mormonism save it be a few really good members Like Tom and my friend stake president mark pemberton who said the gospel of christ is more important than church, putting his family first and I know Tom loves his family also and reasoning with them as he tells the truth about many deceptions that an open mind should accept.. May we nurture the truth of love, rather than judge or shun is my prayer in christ name… amen…… Larry John Australia (PERTH)
John. Sadly, I did not fully understand your 12/22/2012 posting. Yet I felt your pain within it and cry with you. May the new day bring joy.
WHEREAS much? 🙂
Make flyers and put them on the windshields of vehicles during the block… Wear lds Sunday best to fit in, lds camouflage…
The argument towards authority and ‘not leading the church astray’ is absolutely crucial. I have written an essay in the International Journal of Mormon Studies, comparing the LDS and the Roman Catholic position on infallibility. They are remarkably close and highly problematic in both instances.
See 2011 The infallibility trap. The sanctification of religious authority, International Journal of Mormon Studies, 4, 14-44. Also see the website http://www.mvg.org , or ‘Mormonen voor Vrede en gerechtgheid’ (Mormons for peace and justice) a kindred website to yours in dutch.
Walter van Beek
a change is gonna come! Never forget!
Reblogged this on miguel in belgium.
Thank you Miguel
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Chris and those who have signed this petition: the First Presidency has answered you! Watch the recent CES Devotional address given by President Uchtdorf: http://www.lds.org/broadcasts/archive/ces-devotionals/2013/01?lang=eng .
If can find it inside of you to lay aside your pride and attention-seeking long enough to listen to the entire thing, you will find a very clear, direct, and pointed response to all the issues you have raised. I don’t know what better response could be given. I suspect many of you will be disappointed that you did not get a public answer through the media that would have better gratified your pride. If you cannot accept this as your answer, no one can help you and you are going to be waiting a long time.
Listened to it.
Very disappointed that he could be so anti-intellectual.
Why discourage members from questioning? Wasn’t it Joseph Smith who asked questions in the story of the First Vision?
As long as the LDS Church avoids the issues and resists establishing a serious theology of knowledge..”then its members will have to suffer with vague, incoherent statements that equate respectable academic history with conspiracy theories and the Flat Earth Society. This talk is intellectually dishonest in the extreme.”
IMHO, General Conference talks overly simplify. And their use of analogy or metaphor seldom help because they fog core messages and meanings. Examples in these blog postings from DFU and JRH are examples. – SteveBloor, thx for your thoughtful ideas and patience, may it continue, I pray.
You are right about the pride.
Unfortunately it is pride which is getting in the way of openness & honesty from the Church hierarchy at the moment.
If that talk was supposed to be a response to the issues we raised, (and the issues are so deeply rooted and widespread among the disbelieving membership, who can presume to say it was aimed at any one person or group?), then it merely demonstrates that the leadership wishes to appear intellectually, spiritually, and morally bankrupt.
No, I will go further: inasmuch that they are actually aligning anyone who questions the Brethren with Satan, they are on the cusp of promoting idolatry. They are in deep trouble if this is their best effort. Only sleepwalkers will be sufficiently impressed to dignify it with their acclaim.
Do you have an example for: “We find instead that loyalty & obedience is valued more highly by them [God’s authorized servants] than integrity to the truth.”
Could you provide an example of: “Yet we find an unwillingness to discuss difficult areas of Church history, with the excuse that some aspects of Church history are not faith promoting.”
“Yet we find many of the truth claims to be based not on substantive facts, but on an altered narrative crucially lacking in historical accuracy, with uncomfortable, yet context altering details suspiciously ignored, even hidden from the membership.” Any examples you would care to share? What would qualify as true and verifiable facts? Are you seeking for signs?
Again, have any true and verifiable examples of: “Yet we find many failed or changed prophetic pronouncements of the past suspiciously declared as “folklore” & just “personal opinion”.”
It is difficult to believe that this petition is simply the direct consequence of your disappointment that “in most cases Stake Presidents & Bishops are ill-equipped to answer [your] questions.” Really? You know very well that none of them are professionally trained in church history or doctrine, though some are very informed because of their own personal study. Any examples of them giving you dishonest answers to your “sincere questions”? What were those questions?
You know very well that general authorities are not going to respond to an “open letter”. What were Chris Ralph’s “vital questions which needed to be answered in order for the authority of the Church to continue to be justified in its claim to be of divine origin”?
What are the questions the “highest authority of the Church” are supposed to respond to?
How did you discover “that our faith is not based on truth”. What is it based upon? If you truly think that, shouldn’t you just walk away from it and find another faith based on truth? Isn’t that what you did in the first place when you began participating in the Church of Jesus Christ? What in the world is religious trauma syndrome?
What exactly are the questions to which you expect the brethren to provide “a formal public pronouncement of the answers to these crucial questions in a full, frank & honest manner”? You have not asked one single question in this proclamation! No wonder no one has answered your unasked questions. Care to name one “willful deception” of the leaders of the Church? You say that Church leaders should show “integrity, humility & absolute honesty,” yet I cannot see a shred of that in your proclamation which is filed with innuendos and accusations which are entirely void of one solid example. Why haven’t you openly published any of your “sincere questions” as part of your proclamation?
Name the fanciful lie please! What exactly is “the truth we need to hear”? It is astonishing that you presume to speak “for thousands of others”! Who are they? Where are they?
This proclamation is incredibly poorly written; totally void of any specifics or facts that could possibly be answered by anyone. How exactly does one answer nothing? You need to try again and come up with something substantial and move far away from this mass of hollow confusion. No signing on to this for me. What would I be signing on to, or anyone else for that matter?
What is the difference between the responses on this blog and the plain old anti-Mormon bloggers and openly apostate bloggers?
Hi David,
The Proclamation For Truth is written in response to a lack of response from the Church to no less than four Open Letters written to both the Europe Area Presidency & the First Presidency.
Those Open Letters contain the questions to which the Proclamation For Truth alludes.
Read my blog for the questions.
Cheers,
Steve
David one would think if you can not answer the questions you propose on Stephen’s questions then anyone who is hanging desperately to their faith can now easily let go when hearing remarks like yours from anyone trying to be spokes person for the church.
Either you yourself are a liar, or trying to be an apologist, you certainly have much much more learning of church history, doctrine and media. I certainly believe you to be one of intelligence, especially as daring as you have been in your remarks and with good presentation. So conclusively, if so, you would be a liar. But don’t worry you wouldn’t be the first Public liar for the church all the way from local leadership right up to 1st presidency!
True. I consider myself to be one of the best liars for the Mormon church… until I realized I was lying.
Honestly, I cannot understand how missionaries can just walk around “sharing a message about God” when we know about Second Annointings and other craziness.
Supposing we didn’t attempt to answer your questions David, then what would your assumption be about our ability to respond?
whoah this blog is fantastic i love studying your posts.
Keep up the great work! You know, many persons are searching
round for this info, you could aid them greatly.
If you believe your church is lying to you, why not just leave and find an honest church, or, better yet, realize that ALL religions are based on at least some dishonestly, and belong to no church at all! You don’t have to belong to a church to do good, study whatever scripture you think help you, speak with whatever god you worship (or no god at all) and generally live a good, honest, and happy life. Thats what I did, and I couldn’t be happier with my decision.
In my experience, strict, hierarchical churches like yours get in the way of a good, honest, joy-filled life more often then they help.
In my experience of study.and research and experience of attending different churches I have seen that every denomination has historical problems and inconsistencies. There is no perfect religious organized institution that exists on this earth. No organization is perfect and no organization is infalliable that includes churches hospitals work places etc. I don’t let any church history inconsistencies and problematic anomalies affect my individual personal walk with the lord. I can be inspired and moved by The lord to do good and reach out to others with love without church institution problems affect me. I take the good from the bad and truth from falsehood
John,
I appreciate you are a very kind and accepting person. The sort of person who looks for the good in others rather than the bad.
Unfortunately, we’re dealing with historical facts about a reality which does not add up with the sanitised, faith promoting story from an organisation which is taking unfair advantage of kind generous people like you.
Truth is not relative. Truth matters.
When one finds out one has been fed lies & half-truths one’s while life, it doesn’t matter that some of the teachings may make one feel good, the reality is we’ve been manipulated and conned by fraudsters for their own purposes.
Human beings are gullible and will easily believe a good story, even when that story is fictitious.
I for one don’t want to base my life decisions on any fictional man-made fantasy, no matter how good it sounds.
Either Joseph Smith did what he said he did & saw what he said he saw or it’s a fraud. He either translated the actual writings of Abraham (as he said he did) or he didn’t.
I john jeremiah conroy as a member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints have my full support a hundred percent in the mormon petition.the top mormon leaders,from top to bottom rank need to be honest in dealing with the difficult problematic anomalies and anchronisms and perplex diverse changes in church history the leaders owe it not only to God and themselved but they owe it to all of Gods children members and non members.i use to be a ex antimormon critic based on the problemaric history of the church until i searched out fairlds.org and garms.org and the rosemary and bob browns books they lie and wait to be decieved. Its time the church leaders of the lds church step up and deal with these issues.you cant be a good apologists if church leaders stick their heads in the sand john jeremiah conroy sandiego California
Thank you for your support.
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